(In this conversation, we can see that BM has been concerned about Ether throughput and that PoW will gradually go centralized. )
Moderator: Vitalik and Daniel, as deep players in blockchain projects, how do you guys understand the idea of decentralization?
V-God: The term "decentralization" is often used in the crypto economy, and is even seen as the entirety of blockchain, but the definition of the term is very vague. I believe that "decentralization" can be understood at three levels: first, structural decentralization, a system is composed of multiple physical hosts, and at the same time the system can tolerate some of the physical hosts down; second, policy decentralization, the system should not be ultimately controlled by an organization or an individual to control the entire system, but by all participants in the system to negotiate control; third, logical decentralization, the system's data state and data output is decentralized, from the external view of the system, the decentralized system should be an irregular scattered cluster, if the system is divided into two halves, then each half can be independent of a fully operational system. (from Ref. 1)
Moderator: Vitalik, so how do you think the blockchain system can be explained in terms of these three dimensions?
V-God: the blockchain is structurally decentralized because there is no centralized infrastructure and the entire system is composed of all nodes together; it is also strategically decentralized because no one person has complete control over the entire system; but it is logically centralized because the system has a universally agreed-upon data state at each moment, and because from the outside, the blockchain looks like a single, independent computer system. (from Ref. 1)
Moderator: Daniel, so what do you think about decentralization?
BM: The key to decentralization is really to seek some balance of rights and responsibilities between the individual and the organization. Complete decentralization and centralization is actually hard to measure, as long as it is done in such a way that individuals and organizations are given certain rights and are mutually accountable for making the whole system work well, such decentralization is good decentralization. (from Ref. 2)
Moderator: Daniel, we all know that Bitshares, Steemit and EOS all use the DPoS mechanism, did you consider PoW or other mechanisms at the beginning of the design of these systems?
BM: If you think of a blockchain system as a broadcasting station where anyone can submit and record information, the main questions we face are who can broadcast and who broadcasts when. The PoW mechanism is that it relies on the most powerful broadcast stations being able to broadcast, nodes without broadcast resources have to buy broadcast time from those that do, and those with 51% of the transmitter power can cover 49% of the nodes, which can easily lead to rich people controlling the broadcast stations. Whereas the DPoS mechanism gives each stakeholder the right to vote for the person who controls the station, a majority vote must be obtained to control the station, and this mechanism allows for a separation between controlling the station and having the right to broadcast. (That is, the owner of a super-node can only operate that node, and the use of resources in the node is determined by the person holding the stake. ) So, no one can have a monopoly on controlling radio stations. (from Ref. 3)
Moderator: Daniel, how do you understand the meaning of "consensus" among the many consensus algorithms?
BM: The goal of all consensus algorithms is to determine the order of events. Due to the constraints of space and time, each person observes events in a unique order. Two events generated in the same absolute time will be perceived at two different times, with the time difference depending on the distance of their event sources. This means that all consensus depends on the choice of some person to prove the order of events. These could be the people with the most say, the people with the most equity or the people with the most democratic votes, they could also be a benevolent notary, a committee, or any other group that people can agree on. (from Ref. 3)
Moderator: We all know Daniel has been a proponent of DPoS, a consensus mechanism that can really improve the scalability of blockchain systems tremendously, so Vitalik what are your thoughts on the scalability of blockchain?
V God: The Ethereum community and our key developers have always believed that "scalability" is the most important technical challenge that blockchain systems need to address, and that only with extreme scalability can blockchain systems be made practical at scale. But solving this problem is very difficult, mainly because typical blockchain designs require every node in the network to handle every transaction, which limits the transaction processing capacity of the entire system to the capacity of a single node. As the Ether blockchain reaches 1 million transactions per day, which makes it a regular occurrence for Ether to reach its full transaction capacity, our need for scalability is becoming clearer and more urgent. (from Ref. 4)
MODERATOR: Vitalik, so are there any plans or ideas for improving scalability in Ether now?
V God: we currently propose two ways to improve scalability, one is sharding technology, which involves modifying and updating the protocol at the very bottom of the blockchain, the new protocol retains the decentralized nature and security properties of the blockchain, from the current operation of the blockchain system, it really only requires a small number of nodes to view and process each thing, and then allows multiple things to be processed in parallel at the same time, if you want to learn more about it you can take a look at the Sharding-FAQ on github. (The idea of the sharding technique is to divide all the nodes into multiple node clusters, each of which simultaneously performs block recording and generation in parallel, and then a global higher-level node aggregates the block sharding generated by each node cluster. ) The other is to create a "second layer system", a protocol that does not modify the underlying protocol of the blockchain, but simply puts most of the transactions on the processing chain, which then interacts with the underlying blockchain. We see these two strategies as complementary to each other, and we intend to tackle the scalability of Ether in full force with a two-pronged approach. (from Ref. 4)
Moderator: Daniel, we all know that Bitshares and Steemit have greatly improved the user experience by using the DPoS mechanism, which is certainly an advancement in blockchain technology, but have there been any difficulties in the operation of these two projects?
BM: I'm not going to lie, DPoS does have some problems running, such as voters not being very enthusiastic about voting, many forgetting to change their ballot once they've voted, or them choosing a proxy to vote and then forgetting to follow up, largely because the incentives aren't balanced in the system. And the exchanges also pose some risk, with about 25% of the equity in the Bitshares system being in the hands of a few major exchanges that choose not to vote, which would not help maintain the entire network and would also carry a significant risk of potentially swaying the situation once they were able to vote. (from Ref. 5)
Moderator: Daniel, so what are the improvements in the EOS system to address these situations?
BM:We make voting easier by making voters more aware of candidate nodes through a refined candidate node publishing mechanism, and by simplifying the voting interface for users. We have increased voting participation in Steemit by 20% in the last three years through the measures described above. For exchange concerns, we mitigate this issue primarily by designing exchanges with liquid tokens and constitutional constraints. (from Ref. 6)
Moderator: Daniel, I've heard recently that EOSIO is vulnerable to the "batchOverflow" error, do you have a response to that?
BM: That's a very irresponsible report to begin with, and it's very misleading to those who don't understand the technology. Secondly, "batchOverflow" is not a security vulnerability, but a result of bad programming practices. The smart contract platform cannot prevent developers from making mistakes, and EOS is compiled in C++, which is a very mature compiler with good tools to assist in debugging, so it is easier and safer to compile smart contracts on EOS. (from Ref. 7)
MODERATOR: Vitalik, Daniel's last question, what are your future plans for you guys?
V God: I will focus on the theoretical research of some basic protocols, such as Casper, Plasma, Sharding, etc. (from Ref. 8)
BM: I'm certainly fully prepared for EOS to go live on the main web in June.
Off-topic: by analyzing the blogs and statements of V-God and BM, I found that they are both extreme idealists, and both aspire to find a crypto-economic solution to safeguard people's life, liberty, property and justice. V-God, due to his extreme talent, aspired to find a black box of a crypto economy in which people would be free from their own tragic corruption. BM, because of his own experience of the ups and downs of this world, builds an effective tool to achieve his ideals on the roots of the real world. Many people will define Ether as blockchain 2.0 and EOS as blockchain 3.0, while I think from the design concept of both EOS is more like 2.0 and Ether is 3.0, but the progress of technology has to go forward step by step, and the progress of concept has to be in line with the current status of technology development, so the appropriate compromise on reality is actually for better forward movement.
 Vitalik Buterin's blog "The Meaning of Decentralization" posted on February 6, 2017.
 Tweet by Daniel Larimer on March 2, 2018.
 Daniel Larimer's blog "The Limits of Crypto-economic Governance", posted on March 30, 2018.
 Vitalik Buterin's blog "Ethereum scalability research and development subsidy programs", posted on January 2, 2018.
 Daniel Larimer's blog "The Benefits of Proof of Work" posted on January 8, 2016.
 Daniel Larimer's remarks posted on steemit in August 2017.
 Daniel Larimer's blog "Debunking Claimed Vulnerability in EOSIO Smart Contract System" posted on May 1, 2018.
 Video interview with Vitalik Buterin on Feb. 2, 2018, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ctyDU62Ew.
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